The Duck Lodge
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Training standards

+5
Travis Bruce
Eddie Kershaw
John H
Russell Vrhovac
Davey Welsh
9 posters

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Training standards Empty Training standards

Post  Davey Welsh Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:01 am

How many of you train to a set standard? And if you don't train to an established standard, than how do you guage the progress of your dog?

I train to hunt test standards, because I think the progression from Junior to the Master level is logical. These are proven standards and a great way to measure your dogs progress. Last year Caly was trained to Junior level standards, steadiness obedience and marks. This year we are progressing to Senior level. Higher obedience standards, multiple long distance marks and basic blind retrieves.
Davey Welsh
Davey Welsh
Owner/Founder
Owner/Founder

Posts : 711
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : New Jersey

http://www.davidwelsh.weebly.com

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Standards

Post  Russell Vrhovac Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:56 pm

Davey,

I am just getting into the standards training regimen and it is a little awkward somewhat. Sam is three and I have trained her to hunt and help me out for the way I hunt. Most of my birds do not fall far away and I rarely hunt upland so the training I do with a club is a little new to her and myself as it is more fieldwork and little water work, so far. I trial her at Started (HRC) in two weeks in North Carolina. I am a little nervous as I don't know all the rules yet. Some of the rules are intuitive and some do not make sense, yet. All I need out of Sam is to be steady in a boat or blind and retrieve one or two marks per volley. I do understand the need for measuring the progress of a dogs skills in the field especially if you are a Pro Trainer or breeder as a gauge for a dog and proving to the buyer what they are getting. Mostly for me, I see the standards as a great way to keep up training in the off-season and have some fun and make some friends. So far my goals for Sam have been met as far as a retriever but I am having fun with the Training Club I am a member of. Good group of guys, a mix of pros and recreational and 98%hunters so I rely on their experience more than anything. If my retriever doesn't go any further than started, and she picks up some good skills then it is a bonus for me.
Russell Vrhovac
Russell Vrhovac
Regular Gunner
Regular Gunner

Posts : 144
Join date : 2012-01-11
Location : Chesapeake, VA

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  John H Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:16 pm

I guess I'm a "meat dog" kind of trainer. I've trained 3 CLF's in my time and each one I trained basically the same way. I train them to retrieve pheasants, ducks and geese when I kill them and then bring the bird to me and get ready for more action! OB was/is an important part of each dogs training so she had/has to 1) listen 2) love the hunt Very Happy 3) like other hunters in my party Wink 4) Be respectful of other dogs when more than one is along for the day 5) be a great companion to me and my wife in the field and at home!

I've never been into any "standard" training other than above. So I don't ask for much...just be a good hunting dog and great companion is all Very Happy

I do my best to see too it that that happens. I don't think that's too much to ask from any lab Very Happy
John H
John H
Amatuer Gunner
Amatuer Gunner

Posts : 49
Join date : 2012-01-13
Location : Perkiomenville, Pa

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Eddie Kershaw Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:25 pm

Davey
I am a loan waterfowler and most of us guys in the Uk hunt on our own but at the most you might get 2 mates hunting together, When I get a pup I train by the Drakeshead method and once I have trained my dog to the required standard I just keep the training going so she knows all my handsignals whisle and verbal commands and by the time I have finished and that is usually when they are ready for that big marsh in the sky, she is able to spell that lot backwards. I agree with John H, ob training is the back bone to all gundog training, if you can not control a dog at the side of you, you have got no chance 100 yards away, I train my dog to hunt in the enviroment that I gun and train to what I require and not like some people think I should train to, I always get a pup from a good working background and of fieldtrial standard rather that a backyard
sale. I do not bother entering any compertions or feildtrials because I dont see them, is of any bebefit to me, as long as my little girl listens to my commands and whisle and obeys my handsignals and retrieves my birds from land and water that is all I require.

Eddie Kershaw
Regular Gunner
Regular Gunner

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Manchester, England, UK

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Travis Bruce Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:52 pm

I train all of our dogs to a standard, the Grand standard. The HRC International event. Now some dogs will be simply meat dogs, or mid level hunt test dogs, but until we get into advanced work, all the dogs are trained exactly the same. By keeping my standards inflated, doing it 'right' the first time, I don't have to go back when someone changes their mind about what they want their dog to do and tighten things up. By having those high standards, a dog doesn't come apart during hunting season, or regress when the owner takes the dog home after a couple miscues. They're lots of things dogs can be too much of... obedience, and hart are not among them. I want dogs that obey, and will go thru a brick wall, and will stay and hunt because they belive in themselves and what they saw.

The danger of using a hunt test program for your required standards, is that as the levels increase in whats expected, what used to be ok is no longer ok. Its much easier to start training, every single day of a dogs career, to the end result... i.e. I don't train seasoned level blinds. I train a dog to run blinds, and I run seasoned when the dog has 2 weekends and I know there wont be an issue. I don't train a dog to finished standards... dogs coming up run the same series as our grand dogs.. maybe we change the angle of a throw, or a different order... or move over some to send on a blind. I don't expect the same precesion as our grand dogs, but I do expect the same effort. It is absolutley no harder to train a dog the right way, than any other way... Sometimes people are amazaed at how 'fast' we progress on certain dogs at certain stages... its because we never had to back up and patch holes. If the wheels dont come off, you spend all your time progressing instead of 2 steps forward one step back. Its not actually fast, its steady.

one of the guys in my training group has a young choclate, his first dog to train to handle, that just started running simple blinds. We took this weekend as a chance to TEACH his dog to run blinds, and I mean blinds. He was AMAZAED at the work his dog did, in a matter of hours saturday and sunday. I had to tell him, man you've been working for this your dogs whole life, you did things right, so now all we gotta do is show your dog. Dogs don't run blinds naturally, they have to be taught. And if your gonna learn something, why learn the simple version of it? Why not learn the complete gig? Who updates their comptuer to windows 97? Ya go with the top brass or why bother. Is his dog ready for anything? Of course not. But the dog was running complicated 150-175 yard blinds, past gun stations and falls, ignoring posion birds, hitting gaps with style and gusto. Had he spent the 2 days running 60 yard blinds with no factors wouldnt have advanced that dog a bit... TRAVIS

Travis Bruce
Amatuer Gunner
Amatuer Gunner

Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-01-20

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Davey Welsh Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:54 pm

I get what you're saying Travis, but how do you take a dog who you are teaching blinds, and get that dog running 150yrd complicated blinds without building up to that point in steps? If I tried to get my dog to run a 150yrd blind right now it would be something like a Saturday night live skit.

Last spring, my dog wasn't even a year old and we finished a really good solid obedience program. Went through force fetch and then spent the off-season training on her marking ability and confidence. During the hunting season, she matured a lot and learned probably more than I could have taught her. Now that the season is over, our objective are blinds. We've been starting off at relatively close distances, building momentum and confidence. 40-50 yard pile drills, some down hill and with mallards. I have also been teaching her handling. In a month or so we'll start putting the handling and the blinds together (T-drill). Then we'll start increasing the blind distance in increments, building her confidence.

I just don't see how you can skip all of these "building block" steps and turn a dog loose for a 150yrd blind. Could I get Caly to complete a 150yrd blind right now? I'm sure I could, but it would be a fiasco and in my opinion it would do more harm than good. I like the approach of confidence building drills that will give the dog the tools to do a 150yd blind with ease.
Davey Welsh
Davey Welsh
Owner/Founder
Owner/Founder

Posts : 711
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : New Jersey

http://www.davidwelsh.weebly.com

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  David "swampy" L Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:53 pm

Davey,

Don't confuse OR seperate "standards" & "goals" One goes hand in hand with the other.......Keeping a certain standard is a means to an end(the goal)

My "goal" when I get a pup is to train to the " AKC Master Hunter" level standard. In order to acheive such standard I MUST train at every stage and every level to the HIGHEST standards...This opens up another question what are "high standards" ? and what or who defines them? But thats another topic

However, the real trick is to not let your stardards cloud your expectations...Every dog is different and has a different learning curve to various concepts..Some dogs are inately talented at certian things, some are not....That Doesn't always transfer into one dog being better then the other.

Conversely, Don't lower your standards to match what "you're seeing" Instead ask yourself Why? Why am I NOT seeing what I expected from this dog? More often then not the problem is YOU not the dog. Lack of consistent training and consistency in that training, Lack of basic OB, lack of needed drill work the list can go on and on TRUST ME Very Happy






David "swampy" L
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 162
Join date : 2011-12-11
Location : Central Jersey

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Davey Welsh Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:10 pm

Well said Dave. I was more or less curious about how others who don't participate in hunt tests or trials guage the performance of their dog. Like this guy I know who said he had the best retriever in the world and then when we finally hunted together, his dog broke on every gun shot, never sat still and whined the whole time. It got me thinking like "Wow, if you think that dog is good, what standards are you training to?".

Granted, I haven't done any hunt tests, but the way we train is to those levels. Whether or not I actually run her in a test doesn't really matter. My goal is to get her to the point where I think she could probably pass a Master level test. And like you said, junior and senior tests are just "on the road" to the goal of achieving a master level dog. Caly has never run in a Junior test, but I'm pretty damn confident that she would pass on her first try. If I wasn't that confident, we wouldn't be working on blinds right now. I just don't have a lot of money to "play" in the AKC games right now.

Davey Welsh
Davey Welsh
Owner/Founder
Owner/Founder

Posts : 711
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : New Jersey

http://www.davidwelsh.weebly.com

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Travis Bruce Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:34 am

davey, im in no way advocating skipping any step. What Im saying is, have things solid and you can progress at a much much faster rate. The steps to prepare a dog to run a blind are the same, for 60 yards, or 150. The difference is the control you have. If the control is there, theres NO reason not to start at 150. Your first pattern blinds, you're gonna walk out and id the pile... when you back up, why stop at 60? why not back up to 150? Distance adds a factor, that will let you get some casts and whistles in. Then you add another blind to it, again, letting you get casts and whistles in. Now add terrain, gun stastions, falls, to a blind you've already run... you'll get suction and a chance to stop and cast your dog.

flat field, with a ditch, then a rise and platue, then levelling off. No way is a dog ready out the gate for all those terrain changes. So you run it from 40, then back up and get the hill in it. then back up and get the ditch in it. Then add a gun station and run the blind again. Then throw the mark, run the blind again. Is the dog ready for a cold blind with a ditch, a hill, a gun station and a fall? Nope. But the dog is MUCH better off than before you started the squence.

Place 4 blinds around the field. Run all 4 simple cold blinds. Put dog up, run another dog. come back and throw marks, then repete blinds. You'll get casts, but you'll run the blinds, because the desitination is known you're working on the path (i.e. dealing with factors and suction).

train for momentum. When I have a dog that is to a go, stop, come standard, I take it to the field. Pattern blinds ensure good momementum. Early cold blinds are in places a dog would go, take advanatge of free momentum, down hills, down wind etc. I don't expect precession casting, instead I expect to have to over cast to get directional change, because momentum is so sound.

When Im teaching a dog to run blinds, I do not keep marks and blinds seperate for long. I think thats where a lot of people make things harder on themselves. I want them from the very beginginng, to understand a mark vrs a blind vrs a diversion fall vrs a posion bird... I want them to run off the right side of a gun station for a blind, come back and get a mark from left side, line up and run to right... I want them to know, go where I point you your running a blind. if a dog is learning something, its much easier to teach it all than to teach part, have a dog think thats it, then add to it. Im not saying I dont simplifiy, Im saying the go slow approach needs to happen in your basics... when I got a dogs head open to learn Im gonna put it in as fast as the student will allow.

Sunday after lunch, we went and ran slot blinds thru running water... i took my lopping shears and opened the slots up some. My young dog getting ready for finished picked out the slots, and killed it. The old dogs picked out the slots, and save for a couple handler errors and a slow whistle killed it. The dog just learning blinds was, uh, how the hell Im gonna do this. I told him easy, as bird boy blinds.... he came to line, and his dog watched me plant the blind then walk or drive away... toss a bird off line pick it up, and run the 'blind'. Wasnt pretty, but it happened. We simplified for the lesson, and got a lot more lesson than had we simply ran a cold blind across the water.

the attitude a dog has in beginging blinds is the attitude he'll have forever. You dont pile attitude on later. Head up, tail wagging, momentum as the top target in your goals. travis

Travis Bruce
Amatuer Gunner
Amatuer Gunner

Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-01-20

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Davey Welsh Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:38 pm

Thanks for the reply Travis, that was very informational! Do you train professionally?

The biggest reason things move slower for me and my dog is the fact that I only have about 2-3 days per week to work with her. If she spent a month with a pro-trainer, I'm willing to bet she'd be one of the top Golden retrievers on the coast. She has a great attitude about training and she's showing nice momentum on pile work.
Davey Welsh
Davey Welsh
Owner/Founder
Owner/Founder

Posts : 711
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : New Jersey

http://www.davidwelsh.weebly.com

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Travis Bruce Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:53 pm

I train I guess what you'd call semi professionally... I take a select few client dogs, people that i already know, or train, or hunt with, and train for hrc hunt tests and duck hunting. TJ, my youngest son, just turned 14 and he is my partner in all things dog. He trains with me every single day we train, and is an incredible dog man for his age... he trained his spooky puppy with my help and guidence, to his hunting retreiver championship (hrch) last year, going 6 for 8 in finished tests last fall. So far hes 2 for 2 this season, as we started our season off in texas city texas weekend before last... I judge a lot in the spring, and run tests in the fall, as our typical training season is daylite saving times to daylite savings time. Ive got 4 more judging assignments this spring, and we're gonna hit at least one if not 2 more tests so I can run a youngster for his hrch. We're planning on taking 4 or 5 to the fall grand, including tj running spooky puppy.

I learned to train and more so, think like a dog from one of my best friends who is an accomplished full time pro. Out of repsect for him and his profession, Ive never advertised for clients, and spent years training 'project' dogs for the experience and to give them a good life. Taking a well bred dog with no miscues and training it is one thing... taking a rescue dog, or an abused dog, or a non socialized dog, or someone elses wash out and training it is another. Every one taught me more, some we made money on, some we broke even, but it was a catalyst to train and learn.

Im probably a lot more 'zen' oriented than most trainers. The dogs I train, and the people I train, I make them look at everything from the dogs point of view... down to where their dog is going to be looking, and probably thinking... to me thats the art, and the part most people are lacking. Without a clue what a dog is thinking or looking, how can you possibly influence his thinking and where he looks? So many people can quote a book or video verbatim, yet dont understand the process from a dogs point of view. i find that thinking like a dog, makes you break something down to the dog at your side at that moment, and you know whats likely to happen on any given task, so you are able to anticipate and get more out of the lesson, instead of react and hope for the best.

i work a normal job an average of 50 hours a week.. i just stepped down as president of our hrc club (southern flight for the last 10 years), judge 6-8 assignments a year, and run the Grand. I couldnt do it if tj wasnt as involved in it as he is.. it is an enournous committment of time, in the summer I work 85 hours a week between my job and my training. travis

Travis Bruce
Amatuer Gunner
Amatuer Gunner

Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-01-20

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Eddie Kershaw Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:25 pm

Davey
I have a question for you mate, what are your intentions regards caly, are you going to breed her or are you going to feildtrial her.

Eddie Kershaw
Regular Gunner
Regular Gunner

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Manchester, England, UK

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Davey Welsh Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:12 pm

Eddie Kershaw wrote:Davey
I have a question for you mate, what are your intentions regards caly, are you going to breed her or are you going to feildtrial her.

She is already spayed, so breeding is out of the question. As far as field trials, I'm not really into those. My intentions are to hopefully get her Senior title and take it from there. I would like her to be a master level dog, but we will see!
Davey Welsh
Davey Welsh
Owner/Founder
Owner/Founder

Posts : 711
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : New Jersey

http://www.davidwelsh.weebly.com

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Eddie Kershaw Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:20 pm

Davey Welsh wrote:
Eddie Kershaw wrote:Davey
I have a question for you mate, what are your intentions regards caly, are you going to breed her or are you going to feildtrial her.

She is already spayed, so breeding is out of the question. As far as field trials, I'm not really into those. My intentions are to hopefully get her Senior title and take it from there. I would like her to be a master level dog, but we will see!

Davey
Let me ask you another question now lets surpose you get these honours and ribbons what good our they going to do you, you are not going to breed because she as been spayed and you are not interested in fieldtrials so in my view they are not worth jackshit, honestly mate in my view what I would be doing if I was you is teaching caly to the conditions that you hunt and has long as she is obedient, works to your commands, handignals and a whisle if you use one, thats all you require.To me all these titles are like martial arts everyone wants a blackbelt but if you go back into the history of martial arts you will find there was no such thing because it was handed down from father to son, yes I have got blackbets and they hold my trousers up Laughing Think about it, train your dog to what you reqire and not how some people percieve at the end of the day what matters is you and caly and not everbody else.

Eddie Kershaw
Regular Gunner
Regular Gunner

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Manchester, England, UK

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Travis Bruce Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:04 pm

So if you can't profit from something its not worth doing? Hunt tests, espeically hrc hunt tests, mimic the condtions afield a dog is going to see. My dogs get more birds in training and tests, than they ever get in a duck season... duck season is 60 days long, dog season is 305 days long. There doesnt have to be a finicial motivation for doing something, thats productive, and fun. Tests give a measuring stick to gauge your training, and a catalsy to further it. If where gonna give opinions about things that matter jackshit, Id have to say commenting on something you don't understand, never seen, would be around the top of my list.

doing ANYTHING with your dog is better than not doing something with your dog. Be it S&R, obedience, cadavar stuff, agailty, hunt tests, or trials. Even the cockamamy brit knock off trials they're trying to get started around here, beats that dog sitting on the couch and the owner smiling about what his dog can do and nothing else matter. travis

Travis Bruce
Amatuer Gunner
Amatuer Gunner

Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-01-20

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Davey Welsh Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:20 pm

Eddie, for me personally it gives me and Caly some goals to achieve, because training is fun. But it also prepares her for ANYTHING she will see during the hunting season. You may think the hunt tests are worthless, but the training that you give a dog to pass these tests is not worthless. You are giving them the tools to be a top notch working dog. If your dog has a master title, then his/her ability has been tested to a very high level and there won't be anything they can't accomplish in the field.
Davey Welsh
Davey Welsh
Owner/Founder
Owner/Founder

Posts : 711
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : New Jersey

http://www.davidwelsh.weebly.com

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  David "swampy" L Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:27 pm

lets surpose you get these honours and ribbons what good our they going to do you


so in my view they are not worth jackshit


How about the hard work, dedication, disciplin, team work, bonding, learning, teaching and the watching of a 7 week old pup grow into a fine gun dog Hunt test and Trial dog? That isn't reward enough?


The "accomplishment", the "FINISHED PRODUCT" the tons of accolades you receive from clients and your waterfowling buddies over such fine dog work.....Thats the reward "mate" thats the JACKSHIT.

I had a guy who has gunned ALL OVER the world US, Canada, SA, Europe......Gunned over 100's of retrievers of all different sorts. Tell me that my dog was one of the finest animals he's seen in the field in a long time........Thats why I TRAIN, Thats why I run HUNT TESTS.

You've made your feelings known about "Tests & Trials" and I respect your views, although I respectfully disagree with them. But the constant "down playing" of those of us who which to pursue such endeavours is getting old hat. To each his own "mate" Perhaps if you ever find youself on the other side of the pond...try and seek out a Master Hunt test or Retriever Field trial...and then tell me that those dogs are "jackshit" Very Happy

Respectfully,
David C Lo Buono(the good) Wink

David "swampy" L
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 162
Join date : 2011-12-11
Location : Central Jersey

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Eddie Kershaw Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:23 am

David
Im in the same position has Davey I have got a dog of field trial standards with a pedigree that is second to none, I am not going to feildtrial her and Im not going to breed her so it does,nt matter how many honours I achieve, there not going to do me any good, I could understand if a person is going to breed his dog or if you are in feildtrials and you are going to make money. I think the average Guy should be a able to train his dog to a required standard, as I have said Im not trialing my dog but that does,nt mean that she is not trained to a high standard as I take more time training her into what I require before she ever its the marsh and I never stop training her untill she see,s that big marsh in the sky.
I am a stickler for obediance and when I give a command I enforce it, the dog must do it staight away and not tomorrow.
I train my dogs for the way I hunt and the condisitions that I hunt in to do the job that I require and yes I do believe in building a bond from the start, before my little girl Amber ever hit the Marsh she was 18 months old, and all her time was spent trainiing, day after day just training waiting for that big day to come along and when it did she did,nt let me down and she was a joy to hunt with so you tell me what good them peices of paper are to Amber, none. and I respecfully disagree with you mate, peices of paper and ribbons dont always make a good gun dog, it the way the owner trains it. Wink

Eddie Kershaw
Regular Gunner
Regular Gunner

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Manchester, England, UK

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Eddie Kershaw Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:31 am

Travis
Im not talking about the pro trainer her that is trying to make money Im just talking about the average guy that wants to train his dog to the style and conditions that he hunts and reach a standard that he requires, once he has reached the standard he requires then he keeps the training process going everyday if his workload permits, I am most fortunate than most people in that Im retired so there,s not a day go,s by that I am not training Amber, I dont need pieces of paper and ribbons to say how good she is, I know how good she is, I dont need to boast how good she is, I know how good she is, and I dont need other guys to tell me how good she is, I know how good she and that is all that matters to me that she meets my high standards, you know the condisions I hunt in and as you had said you would,nt like to hunt in those condisons again because they scared the hell out of you on that missesippe

Eddie Kershaw
Regular Gunner
Regular Gunner

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Manchester, England, UK

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Travis Bruce Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:57 am

I was gonna to try to explain to you again... but why bother. I see why you spend your time hunting and training alone, why a social outlet like organized training and testing wouldnt be your bag. Must be hard, to know everything and think everyone else plans and goals are worthless. travis

Travis Bruce
Amatuer Gunner
Amatuer Gunner

Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-01-20

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Eddie Kershaw Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:53 am

Travis
Has I explaned in my first post I am a loan waterfowler and most of us guys in the uk go out waterfowling on their own, we are not like you guys in the states that go out in groups and when it comes down to training our dogs we train them on our own. we dont see that a dog needs any honours for waterfowling as long as the dog does what it as be trained to do we let it do it, and bring the birds back, also we do our water fowling incompleatly different condisions to you in respect that most of our hunting by the time daylight as come the flights are over, and the through the day its less productive, thats why we do morning and evening flights, just before daylight comes, then when the birds are going back into roost and just, before it go,s dark when they come out to feed, and at times of a full moon so we have light to see, and all that coulped with 20 oddfoot high tides can be very tricky, thats why we teach our dogs and dwell on the obideance side of training, lets face it if you have got a dog of the right quality you can not teach it to retrieve because it should do it automaticly, thats what the dog was bread for in the first place, but what you can do with a dog is to controle it so it works to your commands handsignals and whisle, there are times I would,nt dream of sending Amber into the tide if a bird has droped in due to it being so choppy, I would sooner loose the bird than my dog, birds are 10 a penny your dog is not ten a penny. I respect your veiws mate but at the same time see where Im coming from, thats why honurs to me dont mean a thing, but having a well trained obideant retriever that responds to your commands and obeys you are worth there weight in gold.

Eddie Kershaw
Regular Gunner
Regular Gunner

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Manchester, England, UK

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Travis Bruce Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:36 pm

welp mate, if they dont mean anything to you, fine... nobody was asking you to particpate in the actiivty. But telling someone else their accomplishments don't mean jackshit, is the mark of a miserable person. If it makes you feel better to think you've accomplished something by tearing down what someone else is doing, you've succeeded. But if you think you impressed anyone with that statement into thinking anything other than your a jackazz, I think ya missed the mark.

to brag about a dog being from a trial background pedigree, then say they don't amount to jackshit to begin with is about as flip-flopy as the shoes jimmy buffet wears.

One thing is the same about both sides of the pond... theres lots of people with 'wonderful' dogs that talk the talk, but they aint never stepped up to line to show they could walk the walk. Funny how the internet is full of experts on things they never saw. They discount the accomplishments of others, without even understanding what they mean is foolish at best, and in this case offensive.

you constantly say your way, your way, your way. Ok we get it. Your happy about your dog and your way. Thats great. But tearing someone else down because they aren't ready to settle for what gets you by, well, thats offensive. And you ought to be damned ashamed about what you said. travis

Travis Bruce
Amatuer Gunner
Amatuer Gunner

Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-01-20

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Eddie Kershaw Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:18 pm

Travis
This thread was about people views and how they guage the level of thier dogs, I gave my views mate in a saterfacty way I was respective to my replys but if the truth herts you guys on how other people train thier dogs and their views, well dont read it, it is has simple has that it would apear to me that you are the one with those types of flopy shoes now get real and stop trying to convince everone that you are a semi pro trainer you have done this and you have done that, when you get world known then you can come back and tell me, but if that ever happens that is unlikely because you see a good trainer never boasts what he can do but does it

Eddie Kershaw
Regular Gunner
Regular Gunner

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Manchester, England, UK

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Travis Bruce Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:34 pm

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA. dude, remember the last time you wanted to play whose wanker is bigger... then ya didn't even have the deceny to say 'good golly mate thats an enourmous wanker'. Your gonna run out of places on the net to run and hide if you keep trying to play that brother.

Who boasted in this thread? Hmmm. Nobody. Who told someone their plans weren't worth jackshit? You did. Thats offensive plain and simple. Ya can talk about a man's woman before his dog. Maybe its different over there, and mates call each others dogs and their goals not worth jackshiit. Over here, it'd get you punched in the face in person. Old man or not, being that rude and offensive get you a beatdown as often as not, and it aint got a thing to do with what you think is the right way to do anything.

I am world known brother. I'm WELL known in hrc, and international organization. Got friends all over this country and the Canada. Ran dogs in 14 states and a provinece, and hosted an interntional event. So that covers this hemisphere... plus theres one jack azz in the UK... kewl, you finally did make a contribution, you made me world known! bwhahahahahaha. Actually, I know a couple brits already, so I guess in reailty, you didn't contribute jackshit. So both of our strings continue. travis

Travis Bruce
Amatuer Gunner
Amatuer Gunner

Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-01-20

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Eddie Kershaw Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:56 pm

Travis Bruce wrote:BWHAHAHAHAHAHA. dude, remember the last time you wanted to play whose wanker is bigger... then ya didn't even have the deceny to say 'good golly mate thats an enourmous wanker'. Your gonna run out of places on the net to run and hide if you keep trying to play that brother.

Who boasted in this thread? Hmmm. Nobody. Who told someone their plans weren't worth jackshit? You did. Thats offensive plain and simple. Ya can talk about a man's woman before his dog. Maybe its different over there, and mates call each others dogs and their goals not worth jackshiit. Over here, it'd get you punched in the face in person. Old man or not, being that rude and offensive get you a beatdown as often as not, and it aint got a thing to do with what you think is the right way to do anything.

I am world known brother. I'm WELL known in hrc, and international organization. Got friends all over this country and the Canada. Ran dogs in 14 states and a provinece, and hosted an interntional event. So that covers this hemisphere... plus theres one jack azz in the UK... kewl, you finally did make a contribution, you made me world known! bwhahahahahaha. Actually, I know a couple brits already, so I guess in reailty, you didn't contribute jackshit. So both of our strings continue. travis
Uuuuum thats funny, your that well known around the world that nobody in the Uk knows anything about you but they will shortly, they will know how much bullshit you can give out, you have just been training dogs for 12-13 years and you think you are a exspert and even better than that, you are a dog cicoligist you can even get into a dogs mind, if I was you I would give the dog the gun and you do the retriveing

Eddie Kershaw
Regular Gunner
Regular Gunner

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Manchester, England, UK

Back to top Go down

Training standards Empty Re: Training standards

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum