Spring Training Agenda

The season is just about over for most of us, so with that we start looking ahead to the off-season. If you have a retriever, this means Spring training. I think its good to end the season and go right into a training routine with our gun dogs. That way the season is still fresh in our minds as well as our dogs.

So what are your Spring training goals with your retriever and how do you plan to accomplish them?

I'll start us off.

I have a lot of ideas about what I'd like to accomplish this Spring with Caly and of course those ideas have come through the course of the season as I get to see her perform. This season was her first season as a working dog and as expected, there were a lot of small obstacles she had to overcome and a LOT of situations she saw that really tested her training from last year. First of all, I don't think she would have been nearly as good as she was this season without my buddy David L helping us. He has a lot of excellent training ideas and methods and I'm looking forward to what we can accomplish this spring.

I decided to make a list of the things that Caly needs improvement on as well as ideas on how to fix them. I'm not an accomplished dog trainer, far from that in fact. But I think creating a list of goals is very important to help us organize our training program for the dog. So here is my list of things I'd like for Caly to improve upon for next season:

1. Water Confidence

I don't know if its just a Golden retriever thing, a female Golden Retriever thing or a Caly thing, but she lacks water confidence. By this I mean if she loses her mark because the decoys are in her way, she will start to turn around and swim back. If the bird is too far, she'll swim back or if the current is very strong she will "give up" as well. I will say that she has definitely gotten better and her confidence has been going up with every retrieve this season, but I still see her question her own ability sometimes.

So to help her build this water confidence, I am going to set out about a dozen mallard decoys every time. Initially I'll have marks thrown just on the edge of the decoys (20-30yrds) and then gradually continue to increase the distance on this mark until she is 100% reliable at any reasonable distance. I'd like to use dead bird trainers for this so that they aren't as "easy" to see on the water as the big white bumper.

2. Water Current

This kind of falls in line with the water confidence, but I'm going to treat this as a separate issue. I've had a few times where she had to make a retrieve in strong current and she ended up giving up a few times. So I plan to take her to the river on a strong out going tide, setup a decoy rig and again start off with simple marks and continue to increase the distance. This should give her some experience with how to swim in the current and hopefully build up her confidence.

3. Steadiness

Honestly I think this is probably (and probably should be) on everyone's list of off-season training. Even though Caly was exceptional this year with her steadiness, just like ANY dog, she had her days, believe me. Swampy's steadiness drill is to sit the dog along the bank and then carry on with duck calling, pop shots from the pistol and multiple bumpers and birds going down everywhere, some even right under the dogs nose. This is fun drill to run and I guarantee you'll get a few good corrections! So even though Caly was pretty steady this whole season, I am going to continue to reinforce this as we train.

4. Blind Retrieves and Handling

So far this list really hasn't included anything that she hasn't been previously trained on, but towards the end of summer I started to introduce the "blind" concept to her and she just wasn't ready. She had no idea what I was trying to teach her and I probably had no idea what I was doing. But this off-season I'm going to approach blind work with a completely different approach. I'm going to get away from a "force" program on this and work on concept building. She is very familiar with "dead bird" now, because this season I have sent her on blind retrieves by lining her up and then throwing a rock near the duck. It is so funny to watch her ears perk up now when I say "dead bird". The last blind retrieve I sent her on, I lined her up on the bank for a dead merganser my buddy shot and when I said "dead bird" she actually broke! I had to call her back and actually send her this time. So she has definitely associated the command "dead bird" with a retrieve, which is something she did NOT associate last year.

So I plan to begin by running pile work again and then transition to single, short distance blinds in cover to build her confidence on taking a line. From there we'll do simple handling drills and I'll probably have to recondition "sit" on the whistle again, as I haven't used a whistle sit on her since last summer.

The biggest thing I'd like to work on this off season has more to do with myself than with her, and that is I'd like to get away from the e-collar. I actually stopped putting the collar on her halfway through the season because I noticed 2 things. First of all, I hardly ever had to use it on her. Secondly, it was really irritating her neck being on her all day. She started getting bruising and scabs on her neck. As soon as I saw that, I never put the collar on again. She didn't behave any differently, so I don't think she really cared.

Davey

May I refer to the water current section, it is alright training your dog to handle the current but I would,nt do it mate on a outgoing tide, there is a good possiblity of, if your dog gets into difficulty of being swept out to sea. I would do it on a in coming tide and do it with caution and have the boat ready incase she gets into any difficulty and you can get out to help her, just my view mate others may have different idears

Eddie Kershaw wrote:Davey

May I refer to the water current section, it is alright training your dog to handle the current but I would,nt do it mate on a outgoing tide, there is a good possiblity of, if your dog gets into difficulty of being swept out to sea. I would do it on a in coming tide and do it with caution and have the boat ready incase she gets into any difficulty and you can get out to help her, just my view mate others may have different idears

I would be doing this training from my sneakbox mate, so just like the real deal, I always have the boat ready to go in case I need to get to her fast.

Davey
Thats the way to go mate, Great stuff just make sure you have got that engine ticking over incase you have to go, you can always kill it when she,s near the boat on her way back, I always try to think one step ahead

Hey guys,

Before my toller, I had never trained a retriever before so I did a lot of reading and planning before I got her and continued studying while she was young. I think I got some really good results and she is a joy to work with. One thing that I did not focus on were doing Blind Retrieves. This lact of emphasis on blind retrieves is mostly due to the fact that I have no bird-boy to help me when I train. After joining a retriever club and watching a couple of professional trainers work I saw the need for this skill. And now have to inprovise blind retrieve scenarios where my retriever does not see where I drop the marks. I have never trialed my dog and am considering entering a trial this April. Gonna do a lot of training this summer but generally do not have a lot of blind retrieves in the field during a hunt.

Davey,

My limited knowledge on training has led me to many of the same conclusions that you mentioned in your list of goals. The E-collar issue is something that scared me and still does and we did have the scabs on the neck from the probes ( I think that may be that since we have "fluffy" dogs we use longer probes) I have found that once they dog is wet that witha long or short probe there is still a conneciton and stimulus. Sam is now 3 years old and seasoned in a duck blind so we generally don't use many "nicks" but have great luck with the 'tone' correction. As for water confidence, especially with decoys in the mix, I trained in my yard while Sam was young and used a dozen or so old dekes for distractions and familiarization. One thing I encountered this year was the dog snagging a decoy line and dragging it back to the boat. (if I could just get her to take it back to the correct location). I would even mix up throwing decoys and bumpers/birds to get her used to using her eyes and nose as to which was the correct mark. Again, I am no pro trainer but this is my experience and I used a lot of non-traditional techniques for training Sam and improvised as I learned my dog and she learned my expectations.

Russell
Blind retrieves are a good thing to build on but also dont forget the memory retrieves also by doing this you should be able to build up your own
training program to suit your needs and the way you hunt, then when the off season starts you will have something to go at, keeping in mind to keep the OB training going, thats the main stay of all gundog work, also never throw a decoy for your dog to retrieve because what happens in the end is your dog will end up retrieving your decoys instead of your ducks, and once that happens it is very hard to break them from the habit.
Good luck with your training and also just remember the tone of your voice plays a big part when it comes to OB training.

Eddie,

I worked with her as a pup and being around dekes and yes she was at first very inquisitive about them but broke her of that. She never did bring one back. I didn't throw a decoy for her to retrieve, more like a test and correction when she stopped to check out the blocks and not a bird/bumper. I had one day with her at 7 months hunting where she whined about all the floating decoys in front of the boat. I promptly drilled and conditioned her to leave the decoys alone. Also, what are "OB" drills?

Russell
OB stands for obediance, and that is the main stay of all your gundog training, if you give the dog a command make sure you enforce it because if you give them a inch they will take a yard, so for example if you say sit make sure the dog sits straight away, and is not alowed to sit 10 minuets later, the tone of your voice plays a big part when it comes to diserplin, if you say sit in a sloppy maner the dog does,nt quite react straight away but if you say sit with a stern vioce they tend to react a lot quicker.

To get 5 ugly orange ribbons with the words "Master Hunter" on them

David "swampy" L. wrote:To get 5 ugly orange ribbons with the words "Master Hunter" on them

LOL! I think you guys will do it this year. I look forward to the weekend training in the bogs!

David "swampy" L. wrote:To get 5 ugly orange ribbons with the words "Master Hunter" on them

David

sorry mate you have lost me,because you are talking now the American trialing system which I dont quite understand, and Im not going to have a argument about systems, all as Im try to do here is pass on my exspearience that I have gained over the last 50 years or so.

Eddie Kershaw wrote:

David "swampy" L. wrote:To get 5 ugly orange ribbons with the words "Master Hunter" on them

David

sorry mate you have lost me,because you are talking now the American trialing system which I dont quite understand, and Im not going to have a argument about systems, all as Im try to do here is pass on my exspearience that I have gained over the last 50 years or so.

Eddie Kershaw wrote:

David "swampy" L. wrote:To get 5 ugly orange ribbons with the words "Master Hunter" on them

David

sorry mate you have lost me,because you are talking now the American trialing system which I dont quite understand, and Im not going to have a argument about systems, all as Im try to do here is pass on my exspearience that I have gained over the last 50 years or so.

He's referring to the AKC Master hunter title for retrievers.

Davey Welsh wrote:

Eddie Kershaw wrote:

David "swampy" L. wrote:To get 5 ugly orange ribbons with the words "Master Hunter" on them

David

sorry mate you have lost me,because you are talking now the American trialing system which I dont quite understand, and Im not going to have a argument about systems, all as Im try to do here is pass on my exspearience that I have gained over the last 50 years or so.

He's referring to the AKC Master hunter title for retrievers.

Davey
Im still lost are these AKC Master hunt titles crap and worthless

Eddie Kershaw wrote:
Davey
Im still lost are these AKC Master hunt titles crap and worthless

I guess it depends on who you talk too.

The AKC hunt tests put your retriever up against a defined standard of performance. There are different levels, Junior, Senior and Master hunter. For a dog to earn the Master AKC title, they have to pass 5 Master level AKC hunt tests...which is pretty difficult! They test the dogs ability on steadiness, marks, blind retrieves, handling etc. Going for titles can make your dogs pups worth a few more bucks, but alot of people do it because it is a fun way to enjoy the off-season with your dog. Gives you a "goal" to reach in your training.

Davey Welsh wrote:

Eddie Kershaw wrote:
Davey
Im still lost are these AKC Master hunt titles crap and worthless

I guess it depends on who you talk too.

The AKC hunt tests put your retriever up against a defined standard of performance. There are different levels, Junior, Senior and Master hunter. For a dog to earn the Master AKC title, they have to pass 5 Master level AKC hunt tests...which is pretty difficult! They test the dogs ability on steadiness, marks, blind retrieves, handling etc. Going for titles can make your dogs pups worth a few more bucks, but alot of people do it because it is a fun way to enjoy the off-season with your dog. Gives you a "goal" to reach in your training.

Davey we dont have anything like that in the UK for a dog to win a title in the UK its got to be a National one and then gets the title of Feilds Trial Champion (FT CH ) in front of there name like my pups farther FT CH Drakeshead Viper, this is a black dog that also carry,s yellow genes thats why AMber is yellow, Her mother was a feilds trial winner that is the runner up and they have the title in front of there name also, both Ambers parents are black

Davey we dont have anything like that in the UK for a dog to win a title in the UK its got to be a National one

You have regular sanctioned Field trials...just like we(north america) do...

Here in order for a dog become an FC(field champion pro trained & run) or AFC(Amature Field champion, amature trained & run) a dog has to acrue a certain amount of points with a WIN in that "stake" ..The " ALL AGE Stakes" are Open(open to all dogs and handlers Pro or amature) Amature(only amature handlers NO PRO's) Qualified All Age"QAA" (an intermediate level open to both Pro or am's) and Derby(pro and amature with dog under 2yo as of the start date)...Points are awarded 1st-4th with fractional points being given as "JAMs" (judges award for merit)


What you don't have in the UK are HUNT TEST's...

The basic difference between the 2 are in HT's the dogs are judged against a "standard" in other words "Dog vs Standard" that standard varies by level(JH, SH & MH) obviously becoming harder as you go....

Field trials are Dog vs Dog....Much more competetive and vastly harder....in a HT 20 out of 30 dogs might pass....In a FT you are looking for the top 4 dogs in fields sometimes over a hundred dogs deep....In order to get that "seperation" you need to challenge the dogs more...Thus the difficulty level in all FT's stakes is much higher

You are corect mate but I dont think those trials account for much and that dont earnt the honers of FT CH. When a guy over here looks at a pedigree for a dog he looks to see the back ground, right back to its GrGr Grandperents what lines are in the dogs and what honers they have achieved in reguards FTCH and FTW, like the pedigree for my little girl Amber all the Sires are FTCH and all the dams are FTW
.My own personal view is only the people that have got plenty of cash or a big kennells tend to trial but the average shooting man just wants to
train his dog and shoot, and some of those trialing dogs are so finely tuned that they only use them for trialing then rest them but the Drakeshead kennells works them all the time, and John Alstead will not rest a dog just because there is a big trial coming up, when they are not
trialing they are either shooting over themselfs, or on some big shoot picking up pheasents . Its true we both have different types of trialing systems between our two countrys but here in the Uk I dont think there is a keen bug with average the shooting man like you have in the states

upland hunter titles on tj's (my 14 year old) spookky puppy, and on memphis (a friend and clients dog). It'll all depend on if we can make an upland test or not, springs pretty booked already with 4 judging assignements and a weekend for my love! Get memphis hrch title. Sending Da Juice to the grand with a friend, I simply not gonna be able to make the trip. Needs that all important last pass for the title. Oh, and a new puppy, should be born in 3 weeks... UH HRCH Rowdy (my retired 1500 point dog) X UH HRCH Sandy (500 points)... really dont want another dog right now, but their isnt a better hunting breeding on the planet to me... between the 2 parents a lifetime record of 17 out of 18 upland tests, and 110 out of 119 finished tests... dat's consistancy and badazz all in a fuzzy package! travis

I am familiar with AKC hunt tests and trials and they are a legitimate means of validation/progress monitoring. I believe you need six passes to get a master unless you have a SH then its five. For a Junior it is 4 passes to get the title. The SH is five passes unless you already have the JH then it is 4. The MH requires six passing scores or five if the dog is a SH. The JH junior hunter level is simply marks, land and water singles relatively simple and four passes gets you the title. A senior hunter SH is more complex. Your retriever will need to be able to do land and water doubles as well as simple blinds. The doubles are marks (bird that the dog sees fall) relatively simple in nature ( less than 100 yards in distance and usually open, non cheating, flat ect.) The blinds are also relatively simplistic; No angles, No cheats, No re-entries ect. short distance less than 100 yards. However, you can get the occasional judge who may set up a more challenging test. The tests can vary greatly from judge to judge. These statements are simply generalities and not absolutes.
JH = single marks, NO blinds, and line manners that can be loose to say the least (you are permitted to use a lead) water and land series. Mostly dogs naturally abilities with a minimal amount of behavior modification to be successful. ( about a month or so of formal training )
SH (Senior Hunter) - double marks (go and memory birds)Land and water series, relatively simplistic blinds ( land and water series ), line manners must be established (dog must be steady( a controlled break will keep you playing for the moment) and must honor another dogs retrieve, Moderate level of training including handling ( about 3 months of formal training )
MH (Master Hunter) - Triple marks (land and water) with more complex concepts ( flower pots, poison birds, in line, down shore, cheating, re-entry ect. ), more complex blinds such as under the arc, backside of gun, channel, angle entries ect. line manners need to be clearly established with an honor( walk up, and dry pop are possible ) A master hunter level dog needs a good deal of training/exposure to be successful. About six months of formal training.
ALL AKC HUNT TESTS are non-competetive. You are going against a standard not the other dogs/handlers for placements. You are given scores by the judges in several categories and must average a certain number against the standard (varies from level to level). You simply pass or fail!
You are not competeing against one another and some of the major differences btween field trials and hunt tests (AKC) are the legnth of marks and blinds. FT are typically much greater distances and include more variables. HT are reletively short (100 yards and less) and usually have less variables. You are also allowed to handle on a certain number of marks in hunt tests, where as a handle on a mark in a trial is surely an early exit. Hunt tests all guns are retired FT some are some are not. These are just a few of the obvious differences.
FIELD TRIALS are very competative at all levels!
Derby dogs must be under 2 years of age and only do land and water marks (usually doubles) sometimes hundreds of yards in distance.
Qualifying Stakes are your transition trials between derby and all age and have marks and blinds both land and water, honors, retired guns, and varying levels of complexity
All age stakes are for the big dogs and can be mind boggling in complexity and distances. These are the stakes in which championship points are awarded towards the FC or AFC.

I started this post by saying that HT's and FT's are a good way of validating/progress monitoring and in that regard I see them as a true indicator of retriever performance. If you see a dog with an FC or AFC in a pedigree there is no doubt that they have performed at a VERY high level in regards to retrieving. They have proven themselves in competition, not simply the subjective minds of their respective owners. Likewise a dog with a HT title has performed to at least a certain level against a pre-determined standard. This validates the abilities of a retriever in a way that "he is the best dog" can not. What one person perceives as an excellent retriever may not be excellent in anothers eyes. A "good dog" is a relative term. These titles help clarify expectations and can also help you monitor the progress of your training and or breeding. In other words "talk is cheap" and any organized club test/trial removes a certain amount of relative subjectivity. As far as the English UKC tests I have never seen one over here, and am admittedly ignorant in regards but continuously hear the same rhetoric as far as UKC hunting and trialing are concerned. There are plenty of AKC dogs that are campaigned and hunted. It is true that many of the big trials dogs are not. As far as dogs are concerned it does not matter where they are from, in what organization they are campaigned, or by whom they are owned. It is human nature to generalize based more on retriever dogma than actual experience. There are no absolutes, just good and not as good dogs in all clubs and all breeds. Well maybe one absolute, theres no such thing as a bad dog, no matter what your club or breed.

If your dog is getting held up in the decoys losing confidence try this. put decoys right off land five ten feet not normal distance of 20-30 yards and throw dead duck thaw out frozen bird. i would use birds to up the excitement. she is quitting on you and the more excitement the better. you may even want to incorporate a shot. anyway move decoys in and throw bird out landing in open water with splash PAST decoys it should still be a short swim because decoys are so close but you are forming proper association of punching through dekes. gradually move out dekes and incrtease complexity of retrieve but always set up so that she will be successful. Somewhere along the line she got in over head with something and found a way out (it may have been in training with pressure, during a hunt a scare, or mental pressure from not being successful long hunt with no bird ect.) and she gave up/avoided and headed back to comfort zone you. You probobally see it with many behaviors when she is not sure. Are you having problems with blinds - no go or goes a few then comes back? Simple Rule With Young Dogs SET UP FOR SUCCESS! then build. Think out your drills before you run them and every dog is different. The quitting in the running water is the nsame thing but I would handle this differently- do you have any friends with a fireball that is a real strong swimmer? Use the pack to help on this one. throw marks and send both dogs just make sure the dog you are training with is not prey possessive. if your girl quits ignore her when she comes back. A common mistake is people make a big deal of it! i.e. ok girl, good girl, fetch it up, this reinforces the behavior because the extra attention is an indicator that something was diffwerent why else would dad be acting different. So ignore and praise buddies dog when it returns with bird Yes BIRD (not bumper or Dokken)BIRD both of you make a big deal about good retrieve and reward with exagerated praise still ignoring your dog and repeat. If she does not start going hard hold back other dog and give SHORT EASY RETRIEVE for your dog then hold her back and let other dog get one keep this going while increasing complexity as attitude allows. READ THE DOG! again set up for success! Lastly the statement about pile work then single blind in cover. If I understand this correctly I dont agree with it! Pile work forms association to go when sent, lining, and dead cue. If she is doing this confidently with style then you wnat to go to a cold blind in cover? Pile work she knows where she is going establishing associations. Now cold blind she does not know where she is going = new concept then put in cover = new concept (I assume your pile was not in cover) and the cover offers no help it conceals while you are teaching. If she runs cold blinds well and you are testing her then I misunderstood but then i dont think you would have been doing pile work if she is already running good cold blinds. Anyway you have a double variable NEVER DO THIS. What do I mean? You have a new concept with the cold blind transition from the pile = 1 variable then you go with a second transition new concept bumper in cover when I assume your pile was not in cover = 2nd variable sure fire way to get poor attitude, popping, no go or quitting. Without knowing your dog and just going by what I read ill bet you have a problem with her giving up on blinds coming in. you need to give her as much help as possible one variable at a time. single bumper short distance just far enough where it is not visible from line (your side) and send while en route the bumper should become visible to your dog. i.e. if she goes she sees it and is pulled and successful if she does not go even once you need to simplify shes not ready. I may have misunderstood your post its late but if anything i said sounds right try it if not good luck and if you take one thing away from this remember to set up for success! attitude is everything! once the avoid/quit seed is planted its tough. Good Luck!

Rob, good to see you posting here. You did a great job with Pearl!

Jim Donofrio wrote:Rob, good to see you posting here. You did a great job with Pearl!

Rob, as in you're trainer Jim?