Training straight lines

Travis Bruce wrote:Eddie, thats exactly what Im talking about 'the differences'. Water work to you means swimming from one side of a river to the other, putting the dog down wind and giving a hunt command or let its nose take over... Water work to me means getting in and out of the water, casting off one point where the dogs already been to get a mark, and swiming past the next... channels. re-entries, angle entries... An average day of training or testing is more technical than most any duck hunt... 90% of the training for 10% of the retreives is how we look at it.. again, overkill? very likely. but i know a whole mess of british trainers, and never seen one of them with technical water! hehe. The differences... travis

Travis
sorry mate I have to disagree, waterwork to me is the dog swimming in the wide estuarys with very fast running current and even at low water she as got to cross sandbars, the fact that I train her at the river is, its just up the road from me and I live inland 30 odd miles away from the estuary. Also mate you have not seen John alstead at work, if you had you would soon change your view he can make is dogs do anything land or water, he,s made up so many national champions it is unbeleivable this guy has been training dogs up over 50 0dd years and his name is renoun in world fieldtrial circles, and Kennels now in the US are starting to breed from Drakeshead dogs.

Eddie, what Travis is trying to say is that over here, we stress water handling. We do water swimby, water handling drills, de-cheating the bank etc. 200 yard blind retrieve on land is great, but we work for a 200yrd blind across water, over land, back into water etc. Our dogs here have to learn to forego their own instincts and rely on instructions from the handler. Because our terrain is much different, dogs are often sent on challenging blinds and marks. Water confidence is what we push for. We want a dog to realize that swimming 100+ yards in the water is normal and that it is not ok to cheat a bank etc. We teach them to stay in the water.

For our marks, we don't give dogs any help when locating a mark. Like Travis said, when they begin their training, they are taught to mark with their eyes. We should never be handling a dog on a mark. A mark is where they get to use their natural ability to see a fall, mark the fall and then retrieve. I have always allowed my dog to "hunt" for a fallen mark when she gets in the vicinity. Because we trained that way from the start, she now knows that for marks, she is on her own and gets use her eyes, ears and nose to find the bird. When she is sent on a blind, she knows that she must rely on the handler. My dog hasn't even begun her formal blind retrieve training but I can take her out, line her up, say "Dead bird" and then "Back" and she will give me a good 50-60 yard straight blind. Most guys would be happy with that, but my goal is to have her doing 200+ yard blinds and to know the difference between a mark and a blind.

You are confusing what Travis is saying.

BWHAHAHAHA. i know mate, you're not gonna agree with anything I say. travis

Travis Bruce wrote:BWHAHAHAHA. i know mate, you're not gonna agree with anything I say. travis

Travis
Its not that Im not going to agree with what you say, but what we are taking about here is two different types of hunting conditions and two diferent types of training systems plus you are training has though you was a full time pro trainer and Im training has a man that trains one dog to suit his conditions and I think that the difference why we are not seeing eye to eye on the subject.

Eddie Bottom line if your method works for you and you are pleased with your dog and Travis and the US trainers have results they want and expect as long as they are happy and you are happy I dont see any difference there is no right or wrong as long as your dog gets your birds back in the way you trained them

Jim Donofrio wrote:Eddie Bottom line if your method works for you and you are pleased with your dog and Travis and the US trainers have results they want and expect as long as they are happy and you are happy I dont see any difference there is no right or wrong as long as your dog gets your birds back in the way you trained them

Jim
I think thats a fair assesment, Im more than happy with Amber she is obedient, steady to shot and wont run in does,nt whine and works to my whisle and hand signals and retrieves my birds plus she is bold and will face any water condisions and any cover so what more could I ask for.

sounds like you have a great gun dog!!!!

cousin eddie, im trying to figger out what you disagree with what ive said. You asked for the differences, I explianed the differences, yet ya keep disagreeing telling me its different. Heck man, I know its different, thats why I posted about the differences. Thinky maybe you might just disagree with me in general, but thats ok, in fact its down right funny. travis

Travis Bruce wrote:cousin eddie, im trying to figger out what you disagree with what ive said. You asked for the differences, I explianed the differences, yet ya keep disagreeing telling me its different. Heck man, I know its different, thats why I posted about the differences. Thinky maybe you might just disagree with me in general, but thats ok, in fact its down right funny. travis

Travis
no mate I will be truefull with you now, because of your termonolgy over there in the states, its like another language to me and I dont understand it, I think in a lot of ways we tend to do the same exercises but slightly different, you can call it variations if you with wish but the mainthing is we both gets the results out of our dogs that we require for the way we hunt and thats the most important thing to be able to train your dogs to the standard that we require.

Jim Donofrio wrote:sounds like you have a great gun dog!!!!

Jim
she is great and I love her to bits, they say the gun is a exstention of your right arm, but Amber is a exstention of my left arm and there is no better combination.

ok, i can dig that 100%... I aint trying to convince anybody of anything, I got nothing to sale and I aint running for office. If you don't think I'm informative, you'll at least think I'm entertaining. Try it, ya might like it cousin eddie. travis

we have peace!! Bravo!!

Travis Bruce wrote:ok, i can dig that 100%... I aint trying to convince anybody of anything, I got nothing to sale and I aint running for office. If you don't think I'm informative, you'll at least think I'm entertaining. Try it, ya might like it cousin eddie. travis

Ok mate the war is over but just remember Im the old fart with more experiance and I have got the years behind me to prove it

well agree you're the old fart... When ya get ready to order a collar, lemme know I can get you a deal on tritronics. bwhahahaha. travis

Travis Bruce wrote:well agree you're the old fart... When ya get ready to order a collar, lemme know I can get you a deal on tritronics. bwhahahaha. travis

Now Travis
Why would you say that, the only time I would buy one is to put around your Kneck bwahahahah.

Eddie Kershaw wrote:

Travis Bruce wrote:well agree you're the old fart... When ya get ready to order a collar, lemme know I can get you a deal on tritronics. bwhahahaha. travis

Now Travis
Why would you say that, the only time I would buy one is to put around your Kneck bwahahahah.

LMAO!!!

Been done before... one of our favorite ways to raffle a collar off.. put it around my neck, someone walks around with the transmitter and sells cards... I act like they are shocking crap outta me, folks buy cards... ha. travis

Travis Bruce wrote:Been done before... one of our favorite ways to raffle a collar off.. put it around my neck, someone walks around with the transmitter and sells cards... I act like they are shocking crap outta me, folks buy cards... ha. travis

What away to con someone