If you could change one thing -

No problem Chris.
I just took the bait.
It sounds like you guys have a problem over there. I still can't believe guides don't need to be licensed in NJ. That's just crazy...

Capt. John wrote:No problem Chris.
I just took the bait.
It sounds like you guys have a problem over there. I still can't believe guides don't need to be licensed in NJ. That's just crazy...

It is crazy if someone wants to guide all they really need is a Capt. License and the means to take people out hunting. That's why I feel there needs to be more control on them to weed out bad ones who wouldn't be willing to jump through hoops to be a certified guide. Its crappy to see people take advantage of things like that.

Keep doing what your doing Capt. John. It sounds like you have a good outfit with a safety first and good way of doing things.

Chris Sharp wrote:

Capt. John wrote:No problem Chris.
I just took the bait.
It sounds like you guys have a problem over there. I still can't believe guides don't need to be licensed in NJ. That's just crazy...

It is crazy if someone wants to guide all they really need is a Capt. License and the means to take people out hunting. That's why I feel there needs to be more control on them to weed out bad ones who wouldn't be willing to jump through hoops to be a certified guide. Its crappy to see people take advantage of things like that.

Keep doing what your doing Capt. John. It sounds like you have a good outfit with a safety first and good way of doing things.

Chris, you make it sound like All you need is a USCG Capt. License like that is so easy to obtain? It will cost you at least $1k plus all the logged hours on the water, classroom time, test, CPR, First aid courses, application fees and TWIC card along with back ground checks and be enrolled in a random drug testing program. What do you think a fishing Capt.'s needs, just the USCG license the problem is that the fellas you are speaking about, most don't have the Capt. license to begin with let alone insurance. A great place to start as in all cases with governement isn't with new regualtions its with enforcing the laws already on the books. NJ is not doing that currently so if "illegal operating" guide services aren't worried about current laws why would they worry about a guides license. It all starts with enforcement and I think ALL would agreed the State of NJ does a terrible job enforcing the game laws!

A captains lic is not enough/ Non resident guides are taking people out on public property there needs to be other criteria and guide regisration resident and nonresident limited days for non resident guides like North Dakota. no out of state commercial operation should have equal access to state public resources

Just having a Captain's license does not mean you can engage in commercial fishing. You need additional permits.

So why should licensed Captain's be able to make profit from migratory waterfowl without obtaining permits just like a commercial fisherman? I mean technically, does a waterfowl guide even have to have a hunting license? I agree that NJ needs regulations for guide services. Its almost out of control on the bays sometimes.

if the guide does not have a gun he is not shooting then he doesnt need a lic

Davey Welsh wrote:Just having a Captain's license does not mean you can engage in commercial fishing. You need additional permits.

So why should licensed Captain's be able to make profit from migratory waterfowl without obtaining permits just like a commercial fisherman? I mean technically, does a waterfowl guide even have to have a hunting license? I agree that NJ needs regulations for guide services. Its almost out of control on the bays sometimes.

Again, its an enforcement problem you can give me all the red tape in the world if law enforement doesn't enforce current regulations how is a guide license going to be enforced? Don't get me wrong I am not opposed to a guide's license but enforcement is the problem!

BTW Davey any commercial fisherman will tell you a permit is just a way to extract money out of them.

My permit is my USCG license it costs money and I need to comply to keep it so whats the difference! Where is the permit money gonna go ask Jim D he knows the game into some pork project in Newark or Camden give me a break. The hunters, waterfowlers or conservationists will never see it!

As stated above , I think the current laws in place in NJ need to be enforced and then you will see some improvement in the quality of the guides operating in the area.

When all the unlicensed, uninsured and illegitimate operators know they will be checked, fined and or jailed for violating the law then they will either move on or play by the rules.

I personally don't know any licensed captains that would be willing to loose there license for a few birds.

As Larry mentioned, it is not as easy as you may think to become a licensed captain and guide if doing it properly. The $1k investment is just the begining and will cover the cost of your schooling. By the time your done I can assure you you will invest alot more than that.
In addition to schooling, you need 360 days of sea service, of which 90 days of service has to be on the Ocean or Near Coastal waters if you want to operate in coastal areas and you will have to be able to prove all of you logged time and where it was logged. And it does not end there.

Here is a link if you would like to know more of what you need and this is just for a OUPV license (6 pack license)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
With this you will have reached the first rung on the ladder now you still have to get everything else.

I think this could make for another good thread.
Want to be a captain and guide, give me a call.
If after talking to me you still want to do it I'll give you all the help I can.
It can be very rewarding in more ways than one. But it is a huge commitment to do properly.

I agree with larry it all comes back to enforcement they can not even enforce the laws that are already in place. Which was pretty obvious by what was going on this year. They need to enforce what is already in place and make their presence more known in these problem area.
What is the differance from a person running a charter boat that has a captains liscence or a person running a guide business with a captains liscence. The differance is that the clients for hunting guide all have state hunting liscences they all have to had passed the safety course and they should all be aware of the hunting laws and no the differance of what is right and wrong. I agree that the bad ones need to be weeded out but i think give them a long enough rope and they will eventually hang themselves.

I didn't mean to make it sound like obtaining a captain license was easy by any means nor would I personally want the responsibility that goes with it. That's just not for me. I fully agree we need more or any enforcement at this point on the laws we have now. That would be a great place to start. We do need more laws on out of state guide services

Capt. John,
If and out of stater had a capt. license and all there ducks in a row and wanted to guide in NY what woulds the guide lines be. Would there be more cost due to the fact they were from out of state. Other then the non res hunting license. Like an out of state guides license something like that. And could the out of state guide's clients hunt on the same public land as any other NY hunte without paying mor I think that an out of state outfit should pay to hunt land that my taxex pay for if he is turning a profit.

ZERO enforcement of game laws...You can make up any law or red tape requirement you want..If NOBODY is enforcing them, what is the point? Almost every given day out I witness various infractions....Rallying, shooting birds under power, wanton waste, tresspassing etc......Nobody cares...I've given up....The only thing that keeps ethical hunters "honest" is themselves........Otherwise I would be piling up black ducks, mallards & woodies like cord wood in a couple of my private spots.....I don't and never will(although sometimes its hard)


2 things I'd change...

1. make the duck stamp $100(weed out the riff raff)

2. "deputize me" Sheriff Swampy......They'd be ording "Bic pens" by the pallett I'd write so many tickets

Capt. John,
If and out of stater had a capt. license and all there ducks in a row and wanted to guide in NY what woulds the guide lines be. Would there be more cost due to the fact they were from out of state. Other then the non res hunting license. Like an out of state guides license something like that. And could the out of state guide's clients hunt on the same public land as any other NY hunte without paying mor I think that an out of state outfit should pay to hunt land that my taxex pay for if he is turning a profit.[/quote]


Out of state applicant has to take the same exam as a resident and as long as they pass the tests they can guide at the same cost for the license. They would have to provide documentation to show they have the experience needed to guide the same as a resident would on certain rivers or on whitewater. A non-resident hunting license would be needed so they can guide and hunt on the same land and seasons dates as a resident hunter / guide.
Note : They must have a hunting license if they are going to conduct guided hunts and pay a non- resident hunting license fee. (resident small game $26 vs $85 for non-resident) That is the only additional cost above and beyond a resident guide.

NYSODGA - New York State Outdoor Guides Association runs clinics each year to help people get the training classes they need in order to comply with the required courses needed in first aid, CPR, water safety along with other classes to keep in good standing with the state. It is a good start for people who do not possess the skills or knowledge needed to get their license.

Jim Donofrio wrote:Dave most guys wont want to move the season back but I bet it may be easier to go shorter in the first split and add those days on to the back end. North zone went from oct 8 to oct 27 that is crazy shooting at the same birds South also went from Oct 15 TO Oct 29 I would like to see how many would support going sat to sat for the first opener and add the rest on the back end. Coastal does not need all those days in the front we need 3 to qualify for the federal framework give us the rest on the back end

How do we go about changing it? Will NJ fish and wildlife let us (DeltaWaterfowl) mail a survey to the adresses that they have or are we just going to have to start a petition ourselves?

Open the season to sunday hunting.

mike bartosh wrote:Open the season to sunday hunting.

That is a bit of a sore topic and I surely don't want to start that debate again.......... I already see the smoke coming from Jim's ears.

Mike Braden wrote:

mike bartosh wrote:Open the season to sunday hunting.

That is a bit of a sore topic and I surely don't want to start that debate again.......... I already see the smoke coming from Jim's ears.

Moving days around to have more days at the end is good but as far as sundays if it ain't broke don't fix it. I just see it as another Sat. For the yahoo's. Calling them yahoo's is putting it a nice way!

The only time I would like to have hunting on Sundays is Early Goose and Conservation Season. You will see that many states have hunting on Sundays for Early Goose. Also most of the time people are working or young'ins are at school during the week so they could only get a day in to hunt. IDK just my $.02.

Mike, no problem and no need to debate something that is not relavant . Lets discuss what we can do with the existing seasons to get us more hunting when the birds are here. I know you and your son hunt norht and live there I am interested in hearing what you think about going sat to sat for the first split and add the extra days on the end. Also If Jode and others could give us some input on the south zone going sat to sat and adding the rest on the second part. Other options would be go sat throughthe next sat and close on a weds then adding the extra days to the end
Jim

Jim i'm retired i can hunt six days a week, i'm just thinking about the guys due to todays economy have to work monday thru saturday. Those are the guys that are getting the shaft. But my second choice would to take one week off the first split and add a week to the second half i'm talking North Zone. Come mid jan everything is locked up solid here in the North extending it past that would be a total waste.

Mike thats excactly the feedback we are looking for. So we would take the last 6 full days mon thru sat off the front and add to the back end. that would have got you through the first week in jan for North
these changes can be mage if the gorups wnat to help suoport it through Fish and game. The other issue is a statutory issue and requires legislation lets lets leave that alone for this round

I did a lot of gunning the north zone this year and I'd fully support the plan of taking it off the front and adding it to the back end. You can't really depend on the weather though since this year it really would have helped, but last year we didn't hunt the last week of north zone due to being iced out. It would be nice to have another week to chase mallards instead of one up front with primarily wood ducks around.

Criag we hunt North also most times one extra week can make a big difference after that the chance of ice out is great but worth the gamble because most times there is some open water

Jim,
That's a tough one. Normally I would agree and say cut the 1st season to one week, add those 6 days to the end and start the 2nd season a week later. But this year I had my best early season ever and it was the best part of my season. Lots of teal, the bluewing were around a lot longer, TONS of woodies, my 1st Gadwall and had a good amount of mallards and blacks. Even SAW pintail early.


As for the whole Sunday hunting, I understand the whole Yahoo thing, but this year I was lucky enough to be able to hunt 3-4 times a week
but having starting a new job this week, I won't be that lucky next season. Having the chance to add more to the season would be very nice.

Kevin thanks for that input/Delta is going to try and survey NJ duck hunters on the season issue
it may stay the same but i feel its worth looking into
there are other issues we eto look at regarding the season lenght Atlantic flyway get the short end of the stick and I want to at least question the feds on how they determine all this

regarding the Sunday issue it requires the senate and Asssembly and the Governor to change that and its not worth arguing over it

Jim Donofrio wrote: no out of state commercial operation should have equal access to state public resources

Do you mean like Edwin B. Forsythe National Wildlife Refuge ?

State WMA's ? Us out of staters put more money into the system than NJ residents do with our $135 license and $10 stamp, not to mention all the license sales that that guide services bring in to the state of NJ.

Good thing no NJ residents come to PA to deer hunt on our State Game Lands