If you could change one thing -

Lets see if we can't get everyone to participate in this topic, should be interesting.


If you had the ability to change just one rule in the waterfowl hunting regulations that govern your state, what would you change?


Lets hear it! This is purely hypothetical and could be anything, from overall bag limit, individual species bag limit or even just the season dates.

After this season I'm going to wager that most of the responses are going to be about the season dates getting pushed back, but I'll go another route and say what people have been asking for for years and we'll probably never get... two black ducks.

Craig
Two black ducks or two black eyes mate.

I am on board with the season dated being pushed back for sure. I would like to see guide services be more control. I hate going to the ramp every Saturday and seing these guides with 4 to 5 hunters sky busting all morning. Having other boats push or ralley birds. Also out of state guide services should have to pay to hunt public land. No freebees. I would be ok with NJ doing what North Dakota does when it comes to out of state hunters. They limit them to 2 weeks of the hunters choice.

Chris Sharp wrote:I am on board with the season dated being pushed back for sure. I would like to see guide services be more control. I hate going to the ramp every Saturday and seing these guides with 4 to 5 hunters sky busting all morning. Having other boats push or ralley birds. Also out of state guide services should have to pay to hunt public land. No freebees. I would be ok with NJ doing what North Dakota does when it comes to out of state hunters. They limit them to 2 weeks of the hunters choice.

In regards to the skybusting, rallying birds, etc crowd I have a question for the south jersey guys. How often are you checked by wardens during the season or at least see them around?

I haven't been checked in at least 8 years or so, used to get checked by boat and at the ramp almost all the time on weekends.

Craig F wrote:

Chris Sharp wrote:I am on board with the season dated being pushed back for sure. I would like to see guide services be more control. I hate going to the ramp every Saturday and seing these guides with 4 to 5 hunters sky busting all morning. Having other boats push or ralley birds. Also out of state guide services should have to pay to hunt public land. No freebees. I would be ok with NJ doing what North Dakota does when it comes to out of state hunters. They limit them to 2 weeks of the hunters choice.

In regards to the skybusting, rallying birds, etc crowd I have a question for the south jersey guys. How often are you checked by wardens during the season or at least see them around?

I haven't been checked in at least 8 years or so, used to get checked by boat and at the ramp almost all the time on weekends.

Never been checked EVER

I thought this would have got people talking I am sure there are things that all of us would like to see changed

I think having a 2 bird limit on Blacks would be nice.

I would also like to see USF&W come up with a true definition for a hybrid black/mallard cross and advise the states where they fall in the limits (ie; is it a black, mallard or "other" duck). The definitions and where it goes towards the limits seems to vary by state and even by individual Federal Warden or State Conservation Officer.

Craig,
Funny that you asked about getting checked. I just got checked by a warden at the ramp as I was launching the sneakbox. First time I ever got checked in the 10yrs I have been hunting. Nice guy he check my license and I talked with him for maybe 20min.

Ray you are right they should be a bonus bird because they are not genetically
one species and they should be weeded out

If I could Change one thing i would like to see them open some of these closed areas. These same areas have been closed since I was a kid and with all the new pressure that the same old open areas are getting with all the new hunters in the area. It is just getting to crowded!!!!!
A close second would be to make sky busting illegal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In regards to the skybusting, rallying birds, etc crowd I have a question for the south jersey guys. How often are you checked by wardens during the season or at least see them around?

I haven't been checked in at least 8 years or so, used to get checked by boat and at the ramp almost all the time on weekends

This year was absolutly DISGUSTING as far as rallying goes...Blatant and obvious with NO regard for getting caught Basically herding and driving birds towards layout boats.....and only 1 time was it a "guide service"

I have only been checked once in 30 years in the brigantine area. It was 3 years ago belive it or not it was 2 women 1 Fed 1 State both blonds dressed up like hunters in a john boat pretending to be broke down. Pretty Funny

As far as the bird wrangling goes i have been witness to it more than once this year. 2 Times by an out of state outfitter hunting within a mile of a the refuge. pretty bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! video next time

Chris Sharp wrote: I would like to see guide services be more control. I hate going to the ramp every Saturday and seing these guides with 4 to 5 hunters sky busting all morning. Having other boats push or ralley birds. Also out of state guide services should have to pay to hunt public land. No freebees. I would be ok with NJ doing what North Dakota does when it comes to out of state hunters. They limit them to 2 weeks of the hunters choice.

Chris,

OK, I'll bite on the guide comment.
I think your beef is more with certain individuals more so than "guides services" not to say that there are some guides that don't play by the rules. I will speak for myself and see if others join in.

I'll take you through a brief outline of how I conduct my guide service.

We meet at the ramp or my marina and first thing is a safety talk. I cover safe gun control, use of safey equipment, life jackets, drugs, alcohol and proper hunting etiquette, and yes, skybusting is one topic. When that is done I ask if everyone is clear on these rules and everyone signs the usual liability wavier. I then make it clear that if anyone does not follow my rules they will be brought back to the dock or in more severe cases I will radio the authorities to come get them. No joke. I take my license and the safety of my other clients my dog and myself seriously.

As we are heading out we continue to discuss the plan for the day and how I expect things to happen. This is all done in a fun manner with questions and answers.

When we arrive at our first spot and set out our decoys I will place one decoy as our farthest shot decoy. I explain that I don't want anyone to take a shot farther than this in distance or altitude. Addressing the skybusting issue. I will also ask the clients to wait till the birds are on top of us so everyone has an equal chance of getting something.

Now onto the " I would like to see guide services be more controled"

I'm not sure about NJ but here in NY if you want to operate as a guide there are a few things you need besides a gun and some decoys.
You need to take a pass a Dec exam for each activity you want to conduct. Hunting, fishing, camping, mountain climbing, whitewater rafting / kayaking. Now it does not stop there. You will also need to take first aid course , CPR training course every year, and also take the USCG captains test if operating in coastal waters or in the bays and all the equipment nessessary for each job.

I would suggest that if a guide is not operating in full accordance with the law, then turn them in. It just takes a hail on the VHF to get the authorities involved. Their actions are not only bad for other guides but for every hunter out there.
Have you ever tried talking to them at the ramp or even motoring up to them. Take some photos of them when your talking to them. I'm sure they will "get the picture" and either stop or move on. If that does not work post them up and let the hunting public know who they are. We as a group don't need guys like that out there.

Here is another idea, Davey, why don't you start a thread entitled " Hall of Shame" I bet that will get some attention.

Just my opinion but I guess I am slightly bias.
My list of licenses go far beyond just guiding and I'm not willing to loose one or any of them.

PS: I'm sure out of state guides still need to have a valid NJ guides license along with everything else or they are breaking the law and can have a long list of charges brought against them.

John excellent the way you and NY handles this . In NJ there are no rules but that may change real soon.

Capt. John wrote:

Chris Sharp wrote: I would like to see guide services be more control. I hate going to the ramp every Saturday and seing these guides with 4 to 5 hunters sky busting all morning. Having other boats push or ralley birds. Also out of state guide services should have to pay to hunt public land. No freebees. I would be ok with NJ doing what North Dakota does when it comes to out of state hunters. They limit them to 2 weeks of the hunters choice.

Chris,

OK, I'll bite on the guide comment.
I think your beef is more with certain individuals more so than "guides services" not to say that there are some guides that don't play by the rules. I will speak for myself and see if others join in.

I'll take you through a brief outline of how I conduct my guide service.

We meet at the ramp or my marina and first thing is a safety talk. I cover safe gun control, use of safey equipment, life jackets, drugs, alcohol and proper hunting etiquette, and yes, skybusting is one topic. When that is done I ask if everyone is clear on these rules and everyone signs the usual liability wavier. I then make it clear that if anyone does not follow my rules they will be brought back to the dock or in more severe cases I will radio the authorities to come get them. No joke. I take my license and the safety of my other clients my dog and myself seriously.

As we are heading out we continue to discuss the plan for the day and how I expect things to happen. This is all done in a fun manner with questions and answers.

When we arrive at our first spot and set out our decoys I will place one decoy as our farthest shot decoy. I explain that I don't want anyone to take a shot farther than this in distance or altitude. Addressing the skybusting issue. I will also ask the clients to wait till the birds are on top of us so everyone has an equal chance of getting something.

Now onto the " I would like to see guide services be more controled"

I'm not sure about NJ but here in NY if you want to operate as a guide there are a few things you need besides a gun and some decoys.
You need to take a pass a Dec exam for each activity you want to conduct. Hunting, fishing, camping, mountain climbing, whitewater rafting / kayaking. Now it does not stop there. You will also need to take first aid course , CPR training course every year, and also take the USCG captains test if operating in coastal waters or in the bays and all the equipment nessessary for each job.

I would suggest that if a guide is not operating in full accordance with the law, then turn them in. It just takes a hail on the VHF to get the authorities involved. Their actions are not only bad for other guides but for every hunter out there.
Have you ever tried talking to them at the ramp or even motoring up to them. Take some photos of them when your talking to them. I'm sure they will "get the picture" and either stop or move on. If that does not work post them up and let the hunting public know who they are. We as a group don't need guys like that out there.

Here is another idea, Davey, why don't you start a thread entitled " Hall of Shame" I bet that will get some attention.

Just my opinion but I guess I am slightly bias.
My list of licenses go far beyond just guiding and I'm not willing to loose one or any of them.

PS: I'm sure out of state guides still need to have a valid NJ guides license along with everything else or they are breaking the law and can have a long list of charges brought against them.

Capt. John, no guides license here in NJ just a USCG license and the proper certifications that go along with that as you mentioned. Pretty much go thru the same speech as you prior to a hunt though I do a pretty good job screening out undesireables prior to booking

Capt. John,

You seem like a very good guide. I applaud your efforts to ensure safety and etiquette in the field. Unfortunately, as Jim noted, in New Jersey we have no special requirements to become a waterfowl guide other than a USCG license. While there are a lot of GOOD guides in New Jersey, we have our share of guide services that shouldn't be hunting themselves, let alone with "clients". In fact, I had one of my truck tires slashed by one of these guides here in NJ because I was gunning from my sneakbox "near" his floating blinds.

I can empathize with Chris because I've seen my share of guide services doing illegal things and generally acting in a poor manner, but just like everything else, there are some very good guides who do it right and there are those who don't.

To steer back to the original topic, I would definitely change the season dates.

It seems as though our Atlantic flyway birds are migrating later now than they did when the current season dates were implemented. While I don't want to shoot these guys during the breeding season, I think it is fully reasonable to start 2 weeks later and gun 2 weeks longer in every zone. I'd love to hear from guys in other flyways and see how they like their seasons.

If I couldn't change the seasons, I'd go for a 2 black duck limit.

Dave most guys wont want to move the season back but I bet it may be easier to go shorter in the first split and add those days on to the back end. North zone went from oct 8 to oct 27 that is crazy shooting at the same birds South also went from Oct 15 TO Oct 29 I would like to see how many would support going sat to sat for the first opener and add the rest on the back end. Coastal does not need all those days in the front we need 3 to qualify for the federal framework give us the rest on the back end

Jim Donofrio wrote:Dave most guys wont want to move the season back but I bet it may be easier to go shorter in the first split and add those days on to the back end. North zone went from oct 8 to oct 27 that is crazy shooting at the same birds South also went from Oct 15 TO Oct 29 I would like to see how many would support going sat to sat for the first opener and add the rest on the back end. Coastal does not need all those days in the front we need 3 to qualify for the federal framework give us the rest on the back end

Jim, I think we agree on this

sent you a PM

I agree with jimmy i would rather see the days added to the back of our coastal season.

Jim Donofrio wrote:John excellent the way you and NY handles this . In NJ there are no rules but that may change real soon.

Jim,

I can't believe there are no requirements for guides. When I was writing my reply I did a quick search on the NJ DEP site and just thought I missed it. I'm shocked!! So anyone who wants to guide can just set out and go if they are not using boats. I find that very irresponsible on the lawmakers part.
Don't mean to hijack the thread but holy crap.....I guess thats why it's a bigger problem there. There is nothing for the guys to loose.

John, exactly and that is a problem which we will address in Trenton this session
Jim

Capt John I didn't mean to jump on all Guide services It seems like you have a awesome and safe set up. There were Jack asses guiding near me without a Capt. license just going and doing guides. The two Guides that I see every Sat By Noon When the brant Stopped flying they would send A rally boat to heard them to where there clients were to shoot em. Then shoot more then 2 and let the dead brant float by and never pick them up. I know the wardens were called at least 2 times about the guides and the one guide service is from PA. The same guide service from PA set up 60 yards from me 3 different times. They were so close I could hear there decoys splashing in the water when they were setting up. I talked to the one guide at the ramp one day and he said "oh we didn't know you were that close". As I was shinning a 2mil spotlight at them In the dark. I am on board for having less day in the begining and adding them to the end.

So today on a Tue. I go to the ramp and launch my boat and here is a warden on a Tue. and I am the only guy at the ramp. He checked my everything was good but I would like to see him on a Sat. to catch these guides.